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cashew ([info]cashew) wrote,
@ 2009-06-14 15:17:00

Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Entry tags:game: guild wars

Guild Wars meta crap, ignore
Like the title says, most of f-list is not interested. This is just me rambling.

Because the non-core professions got seriously hated on over the years and they need to be buffed.

Assassin:
I bitch about this quite a bit and at this point, there's not much more I can say. But, there are still a few more points I can make that I feel have been neglected in the past.

The thing about assassins is that they are a melee glass canon. The problem is that while this can be devastating in PvP, it's slightly useless in PvE. This is especially difficult with h/h due to the fact that everyone spikes the same target anyway, so an individual spike that gets put out of commission for the rest of the fight is fairly useless. Currently, the only viable PvE build is either MS/DB or going critscythe, critbow for the days when your assassin just can't seem to live at melee range.

To increase PvE usability, assassins need faster recharging attacks. I've said before the four to five second recharge should be the maximum recharge on any dagger attack, but damage output should not be an assassin's sole focus. Since spiking is not all that useful in PvE, what assassins need is more utility. Dagger attacks (and even dark arts magic) need to provide more utility, such as knockdown, interrupts, and condition spam. While there quite a lot of skills on an assassin that can achieve this, these almost always tend to be the super long recharge skills. So what needs to happen in PvE is not having a bunch of fast recharge damage, but rather fast recharge interrupt, knockdown, and condition utility skills.

For example, the skill Golden Strike needs to deliver the daze condition that's on par with rangers. 5 second daze is simply not enough for an off-hand attack. However, had they reduced the recharge to 5 seconds, then at 10 energy skill spammed at 5 second intervals to deliver daze permanently on a target is much more preferable. This way the ranger can daze one target while the assassin daze another and the rest of the team take out the enemy at a leisure pace. With a fast enough recharge in attack skills (include dark arts skills), an assasin can finally switch targets like any sane melee attacker when facing with block, instead of having to carry Golden Fox Strike if they want to do any damage.

In summary, change assassin attack skills so that there is much more variability in the attack chains and such that if the assassin is blocked or blinded, s/he can still deliver either damage or support for the rest of the group.


Ritualist:
The ritualist has some very special abilities that unfortunately are not supported by their primary attribute. And while weapon spells are quite unique and useful in certain conditions, item spells are powerful skills that comes at the cost of weapon bonuses, it is the spirits, with their ability to affect all allies in earshot, that is in theory the most useful of skills. Yet, because of a spirit's inability to target specific foes, to target specific allies, and being extremely fragile, they are almost never preferred to a monk's heal party, despite being much better at damage mitigation party wide.

The first problem is that spawning power provides not enough bonuses to be worth bringing over a necromancer with infinite energy. Odd, seeing as spirits have long recharge and thus being able to get the full effect from a spirit should be preferable to spamming, but in practice is not so. Thus, the first thing that needs to happen is for spawning power to boost spirit ability. Rather than given a mere health bonus, each rank in spawning power should increase the spirit's level by 1 and its armor by 5. Thus, at 12 spawning power, a ritualist's spirit has 12 more levels and 60 more armor than the necromancer's. Suddenly, the spirit is far more durable and useful in a fight.

Second, the binding ritual spirits need to be functioning at a earshot level. In many cases, the elite spirits need to do more than attack/heal a single target. Preservation, for example, should heal all allies within earshot for 94 health and loose 94 health ever 4 seconds. Wanderlust should knock down all enemies within earshot every 3 seconds and loose the corresponding health. In fact all of the single target spirits need to be changed to affect all enemies/allies within earshot, and of course loose the corresponding amount of health in turn, thus increasing the desire for a ritualist to cast spirits rather than a necromancer.

Third, while weapon spells are useful, they need to last the full duration of their skill description rather than disappear in one hit. One hit disappearance should be the paragon's specialty, therefore weapon spell effects should always be for a full duration rather than number of attacks. This way, weapon spells can finally be on par with monk protection spells.

Finally, the ritualist needs some hex removal skills. Because they are supposedly the other healing class.


Paragon:
Since ritualists have spirits that help to buff all allies, paragon shouts and chants need to do much more to help buff party members. The command skills are especially weak compared to motivation and thus need to give party members much more useful abilities, like inflicting deep wound, gaining energy, increasing damage, etc. Where motivation gives party heals, command should increase party durability, such as increasing health and energy regeneration party wide, increasing armor for a few seconds, reducing recharge for the next skill used, and the general gives +damage for the next attack.

Since spears are projectile weapons, their effects should be comparable to bows. Height should affect the damage dealt and the bonus damage should be decreased on spear attacks. On the other hand, spear attacks should have more utility, such as removing stances without having to build up adrenalin first, attacks that can go through blocking stances/enchants, and attacks that maybe removes a few enchants here and there. Spear attacks, like paragon shouts and chants, should be utility based rather than damage based. Leave the damage to the melee classes please.

In short, having a paragon should be a boon to the group and a good, supportive boon that helps make the monk's lives easier.


Dervish:
The problem with the dervish is that not only can an assassin use their scythes better than a primary dervish can, they also have less tanking ability than the supposed glass canon (thanks to critical agility, god I love that skill). So, what a dervish needs is better self healing to tank and better enchants that actually do something rather than be useless once removed.

Mysticism needs to heal the dervish a lot more than just a mere 1 health per rank. Rather, mysticism should give 1 health per hit while under the effects of an enchantment and return energy once an enchantment ends. This effect in addition to other health gain enchantments will make it easier for dervishes to keep alive when being hit by a group of skeletons.

In order to make scythe attacks more preferable by a dervish than on an assassin (and as much as I love running critscythe on the assassin, I admit it's a broken, broken thing), scythe attacks should cost much more than a mere 5 energy. (And considering a scythe's inherent ability to hit 3 foes at once, this is a reasonable cost.) Furthermore, a dervish should be able to gain energy for each successful scythe attack, just as assassins gain energy for critical attacks. The easiest way to solve this would be for mysticism to return energy for each additional foe hit at the same rate as an assassin's critical strike. (i.e. 1 energy at rank 3, 2 energy at rank 8, and 3 energy at rank 13, thus giving a maximum of 6 energy should the dervish hit all 3 foes, and reduce 10 energy cost skills to a mere 4 energy.) This way, not even an assassin's critical strikes is enough to generate the necessary energy to use scythe attacks. At the same time, this form of energy generation is not enough to use daggers, leaving assassins as their masters.


Mesmers:
Fixing mesmers should be easy enough really. Change power return so that it is the mesmer who receives energy rather than the enemy and you have the ultimate interrupter. (Spam spam spam.)


(Post a new comment)


[info]tanithryudo
2009-06-15 05:49 pm UTC (link)
First of all... mesmer is supposed to be core class. :P But we can come back to them.

Assassins:

Agreed on the faster attack skill recharges. Though if that happens, I'm not sure you should then tack more utility - especially the really good utilities - on the attack skills themselves. My thoughts are that the whole attack chain thing needs to be compressed. Lead -> Dual. None of this lead -> offhand -> dual stuff that takes two prerequisites to get to the really useful stuff. Also, the conditions for dual can be more varied than "just follow lead". Other conditionals can be stuff like "if KD", "if condition", "if foe is x", "if self is x", etc.

That way you have more choices to pick when bringing attacks, both because you're not locked into 3 skills of each type, but you can also depend on your team to provide the conditions for your duals. Also, once you can compress the attack skill portion of your bar, that leaves room for more utilities either from your own lines (shadow arts will need some reworking) or from a secondary line (or from PvE skills).

(BTW, for Golden Skull Strike in particular... I think that if they keep the recharge, then the duration should be around the same as the warrior elite Skull Crack - ie. just maintainable w/ a silencing mod. If they lower the recharge, then the current duration is fine.)


Ritualist

I'm not sure it's a good idea for spirits to potentially have higher level/armor than henchies. Just think what will happen to Ghostrider Beetles and Irujkandi in HM! Especially since the only decent anti-spirit skills are pretty much limited to Fury and Spiritual Pain.

But certainly a small adjustment is fine. They were only nerfed due to PvP anyway. So just split the spirit skills and buff them back up to pre-nerf levels... including lowering the cost on the darned communing spirits already! The only reason Necs are (still sometimes) used to spirit spam is because Rits can't handle the energy required. Lower the energy cost to reasonable levels and there would be no reason to prefer necs over rits for them. Especially now that spirits don't trigger soul reaping anymore.

As for weapon skills... I can see why they want to make some of them limited to # of hits taken/dealed instead of over the entire duration, since they are not strippable (unlike monk enchants) and can be imba (aka splinter). But to make them more attractive on rits, I think what can be done is to increase the # limit on the weapon skills according to spawning power. So, for example, Xinrae's will last 5 hits when cast by a rit as opposed to 1 hit on a necro. And of course, split them from PvP.

And yes, hex removal would be good. They do ok for condi removal, though not quite as good as some of the non-healing classes (foul feast - looking at you).


Paragon

All chants need to be split from PvP and buffed back to the level they were at when NF first came out (you know, when they were designed with maybe 1-2 paragons per party in mind rather than 8 paragons chaining it).

Spear should do less damage than sword since they are ranged but have the same speed of attack. Spear skills however should have more stuff that goes through block - including energy based interrupt and stance removal skills. Damage dealing attack skills should mainly be adrenaline based.


Dervish

Not played this class, so I can't say much. I do think mysticsm should be split from PvP and de-nerfed back to start of NF levels. IOW, make avatars of melandru, grenth, and balthazar usable in PvE again.

Stop buffing scythe skills. That's benefiting mainly non-derv classes. Instead, buffs to scythe attacks should be linked in mysticism... kinda like crit agility buffs assassin attacks but is in Crit Strikes.


Mesmer

I don't think buffing any interrupt will help, since the only good player interrupters are PvPers and they're the ones wanting nerfs. If they buffed interrupts, people would just bring mes heroes along instead of mes players.

No, what they need to do is to buff mesmer hexes (and split them from PvP of course). They're on the right track with changes to VR, but it can be buffed more to be on par with Spiteful Spirit. Stuff like Clumsiness, wandering eye, etc. need to be de-nerfed.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]cashew
2009-06-15 09:46 pm UTC (link)
That's why I said non-core professions and Mesmers. :P

Assassin:
The problem with changing assassins is that stupid Anet can't seem to decide what role assassins should be playing. Either they are melee nukers (and isn't that an oxymoron?) or they are supposed to run utility and support the rest of the team. But right now assassins run both using the same damn skills (Twisting Fangs I'm looking at you), so it's pretty much WTF?

Not so sure the chain should be shorted quite so much, because the long chain is the only thing that's preventing super heavy dual spikes (by forcing the usage of an elite or running dual->off-hand->dual->off-hand 4 skill chain). So if assassins are going to go the physical nuker route, then long chains are necessary to balance things out. However, if assassins are going to run utility, then it's better to run them on short chains and fast recharge for spammability. But most of an assassin's utility skill are already on the lead and off-hands at this point.

As for running variation, had they reduced recharge on most of the dagger and deadly arts skills (iron palm 20 seconds WTF?), especially all of the opening attacks, then assasssins have a lot more variation over the golden fox-wild strike-death blossom chain. Just think if iron palm, black spider, leaping mantic, desperate, disrupting, exhausting, vampiric, falling, golden phoenix, lotus, mantis, ox, asp were all 4 second recharge and black mantis was made into an off-hand again, suddenly the choice is totally open for an assassin. An assassin can go poison, bleeding, kockdown spam, interrupt, e-denial, or straight out damage, and can continuously deliver either condition, interrupts, or damage, as an assassin should be doing.

(As for Golden Skull, due to its off-hand nature, I think decreased recharge is much more preferable.)

Ritualist:
The thing is, spirits have only ever 1 skill. So even with three or four level 26 spirits, they can still go down fast enough due to their inability to do anything by spam one skill (and the fact that they're grouped together and will go down quickly in the hands of an assassin or dervish or ranger's barrage). I very much doubt the extra health and armor will be that much more of a problem. But at least this way player ritualists' spirits will actually be useful rather than fodder.

Also, communing spirits are really useful if not for the shitty energy cost. So lowering communing back to 10 or 15 energy cost will greatly improve a ritualist's versatility. So agreed.

As for weapon spells, even if usage is changed to duration as opposed to times hit, they're still not all that much overpowered. Look at Xinrae's, it's an elite skill that is less useful than a non-elite prot spirit. And while they're not strippable, they're also not stackable either, thus balancing things out. If anything, weapons spells should be a non-stripable and non-stackable enchant, and I do not see this being any more powerful than a monk's enchantments.

For hex removal, I'm thinking of changing the resto skills to include "remove a condition and hex" to fix things a bit.

Paragon:
Actually, for paragon spears, I think they need to have slower attack rate, maybe the same as a short bow due to the ranged nature. A paragon should also have less attack bonus and more utility and more energy based attacks. But I think we agree on this.

Dervish:
It doesn't seem very fair to link scythes to mysticism when all the other weapons are not linked to their respective profession's primaries. Yes, critical strikes help the usage of daggers as does strength to warrior weaponry, but that's not the issue. The issue is that the dervish's primary does not help with their weapon's usage. If mysticism gained energy based on number of foes hit, then a dervish will be able to use the scythe to a better degree than any of the other professions. Even expertise is not enough to counter a 10 energy or 15 energy attack.

Mesmer:
Well, mesmers already have the illusion line for extra hexes. If anything, they need a buff to the domination line, specifically more skills like backfire with faster recharge and lower cost to help with the problematic casters.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)


[info]tanithryudo
2009-06-16 11:48 am UTC (link)
Assassin:

OK, I guess "balancing" or "fixing" assassin's isn't going to be possible until they make up their minds what the role for the class is.

Regarding long chains to balance heavy dual spikes... well, if we keep the chain as it is, then it needs to be less fragile so that one distract/shield bash/block/etc to the lead will not completely 3-for-1 invalidate the other two skills on the bar.

Ritualists:

Well, an army of jagged or vampiric horrors only spam one skill, but the only minion that gets to be higher lvl than PCs is elite. True, spirits don't come in swarms that minions do and are less spammable and less mobile, but I still feel uncomfortable about potentially going up against lvl 30/AL 100 spirits from rit mobs that are themselves almost a boss.

I'm fine with a little buff to them. Anywhere in the lvl 15-18 range and the AL 40-55 range is fine. Thing is, they shouldn't be harder to kill than the average non-healer henchie (and even healer hench if that healer is Alesia :P).

Hex removal - Weapon of Remedy should definitely remove both a hex and condi. Spirit wep can maybe remove a hex or condi and then apply +AL and regen. Some of the condi-affecting spirits can also shorten the time that hexes last on allies. Etc.

Paragon:

Well, the thing with spears is that they need something with fast recharge in order to power adrenaline skills... that's why I'm more inclined toward the less damage, fast attack speed. But maybe a slightly slower attack speed - more on the order of axe than bow.

Dervish:

I don't mean link the weapon damage to mysticism directly. I was thinking of skills more on the line of "while this lasts, do +x damage per melee or per scythe strike".

Mesmer:

The illusion line was nerfed a while back due to PvP. I think Clumsiness and Ineptitude got hit; not sure what else. These days, most mesmers seem to only use Sig of Illusion to power PvE skills, and then some random long lasting/short recharge hex to power CoP. That's sad, cus a PC illusion mesmer should be better than the illusion hench given the same bars.

Domination hexes can be buffed too. Like I said before... all mesmer hexes can stand to be buffed in PvE, as that is the area where PCs do better than AI.

And even in Inspiration, some of that stuff can be de-nerfed. Keystone Sig, for instance, was nice an buff for all of, like, 1 day, due to PvP whining.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)


[info]cashew
2009-06-16 12:45 pm UTC (link)
Assassins:

The problem with fragile chains is that there is very little interchangeability between leads. The shortest chains so far that have existed is 4 skills, not 3, due to the fact that most chains have only one usable lead attack as opposed to two or three. If there are multiple leads, then an assassin won't have to worry about being disabled as much. Inconvenient, yes, complete shutdown, now.


Ritualists:

The thing is, minions can mob a single target, can move with the party, and is extremely cheap to make (especially on a necro). Whereas spirits give no such benefits, hence my desire to see the spirits being buffed to be higher than a necromancer. Further more, sane ritualists should be throwing up the correct spirits to fit the needs, not spamming them. See a spike? Throw up Shelter for party wide damage negation. See a fire ele? Throw up dissonance for quick interrupts. Etc, etc.

I'm actually different on the spirits being easy to kill side. I like them being more difficult to kill so I can get off even more death blossoms instead of only getting to the off-hand. And because spirits tend to be surrounding the ritualist caster, I can take down the caster and all of his spirits in one go instead of doing them one by one.


Paragons:

Actually, I'm of the opinion that paragons need to have less adrenalin build up than warriors, but that paragon skills should be more energy based than adrenalin based. The point of a paragon is to build up energy through shouts and chants, most of which function on at most 5 adrenalin, as opposed to some of the warriors' 8 to 10 adrenalin skills. So a spear should attack slower than a sword but do comparable damage, hence short bow equivalent.


Dervish:

My beef with dervish is that they already deal huge amounts of damage through their scythe weapon and enchants (heart of holy flame, balth spirit, etc.). Hell, I've seen 666 damage on the critscythe against a level 20 foe, and that's not really any different from a dervish other than the less chance to see a crit. I really don't think dervishes are lacking in the damage department.


Mesmers:
I agree with hex based interrupts (web, backfire, etc.), but I think the point of a mesmer should still to be interrupting. Because what better way to negate damage than to have the skills never get off, right? They just need skills more useful for interrupts on human players.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)


[info]tanithryudo
2009-06-16 02:09 pm UTC (link)
Assassin:

Multiple leads, then plus the offhand and dual, means less room on the bar for other stuff... well, and then we're back to the 'what is the role of the class' question again. :/

Rits:

Eh, I guess my preference is just the other way around. I mean, death blossom is one of the highest damage, armor ignoring, direct damage skills. Aside from that, vs a nest of lvl 20+ / AL 80+ spirits - Ele damage is reduced, as are most physical AoEs like axe, barrage, splinter.

Dervish:

Maybe I was unclear... I meant in my first comment that they should not buff the scythe attacks because it benefits non-dervs more than dervs.

IMO, scythe attacks should be more focused on secondary effects (+hp, +e, conditions, strip enchant, whatever) and the +damage should come from mysticism enchants. That way secondary dervishes just make do with the default damage of the scythe (which is pretty buff by itself) but primary dervs still should do more damage due to self buffs.

Mesmers:

Mistrust needs to have recharge 10 to become the anti-caster equivalent to Wandering Eye. Similarly, there should be domination equivalents to Clumsiness and Ineptitude. CoF comes close to the former if it was made into an AoE hex that interrupts the next cast and deals damage. Ineptitude needs a domination equivalent that will interrupt the next cast and cause daze.

(Of course, if they buff rit spirits as you like them, then it'd be only fair to buff spiritual pain back to its former glory...)

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]tanithryudo
2009-06-16 02:22 pm UTC (link)
On further reflection regarding Rit spirits... I think part of the problem is the inherent PvE balance between PCs and mobs.

If your lvl 20, spawning power = 11~16 Rit PC can cast spirits that can outlast 1 AoE from the average lvl 25-28 ele/warrior/dervish mob, then when you scale that up to the lvl 25-28/spawning power=20 mobs, you get spirits that will take a bar of ele AoEs or a good portion of your barrager/aoe-warrior/derv's time to kill.

On the other hand... if you scale the rit mob's spirits to be killable within 1-2 AoEs from a lvl 20/fire=16 ele PC or a few shots from barrage/aoe-warrior/derv, then if you scale down those spirits for the PC ritualist, the average fire/bow/scythe/axe=20 mobs are still going to wipe them out with one hit.

There just needs to be a happy medium, I think.

:-/

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)


[info]cashew
2009-06-16 05:59 pm UTC (link)
Let's just say that all so called balance issues stems from the inherent level disparity between players and mobs. >.>;

(Reply to this) (Parent)



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